BALDWIN COUNTY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING
Thursday, August 24, 2006
Baldwin County Central Annex
22251 Palmer Street
Robertsdale, Alabama
8 : 3 0 a.m.

KYLE BAGGETT: Appropriation for athletic facilities at Spanish Fort High School, basically we are going to put in reserve up to a half a million but we will match twenty-five percent of the project cost. I think right now we heard that they have an $800,000 earth moving contract. We would fund twenty-five ?ercent of that up to half a million with that match requirement.

MIKE THOMPSON: We have not had any discussion on any in-kind that you know of?

KYLE BAGGETT: I have not.

CAL MARKERT: I have not. I hope I'm involved when we do.

KYLE BAGGETT: Frank said they were moving dirt.

MIKE THOMPSON: That discussion needs to happen quick.

WAYNE GRUENLOH: The other part of that that I would like to add is there is the issue of the service road that parallels the interstate going from the Bass Pro Shop development back. There is a feeling on the part of a lot of folks that all this retail, most of that sale taxes goes to the board of education. They need to be  involved in that service road from a capital standpoint in some form or fashion. I don't know if we have had a conversation with them with regard to that. There could be some issues as far as them being able to contribute money toward that road construction. But I know there is a lot of folks that feel like they ought to be involved in that in some way.

KYLE BAGGETT: They can't legally spend money on the road.

WAYNE GRUENLOH: I understand that. One of the thoughts I had in proposing to them was that $500,000, we said, we would help you, we will move that over to the road and you take care of the school yourself to find some way for them to be involved in that service road. They are the ones that are going to benefit from the sales tax. It's not going to be the county.

ED BISHOP: I have had this conversation with Joe Faust and the gentlemen from the Bass Pro shop. We had lunch together one day. He presented me and Joe a copy of something showing the sales tax projected revenue. My recollection was that the school board was to get $1.7 million per year. The :ounty gets about $660,000, which as you see we had a number here for $650,000, I believe, was what we thought we could do. I basically told them that we had about stretched ourselves on this thing as far as we could go. He said that their point is that they have to have the money and know this thing is going to fly or this may go somewhere else. That's the pretty much the way it was put. I said, well, you know, - - Joe went to the school board right after that and talked to them point blank about it. He is getting
the same thing that Frank and I got when we went a year ago and discussed it with them; about them participating in some form or fashion because they are getting the bulk of the money. He is not getting anywhere to my knowledge after those meetings and discussions he has had with them. They keep saying well, we don't know if it's legal. We will discuss it with the board and we will see if we can get you an answer. No one ever comes back with any response.

MIKE THOMPSON: What was the dollar break out of the sales tax? Was that $1.7 million is going to the school? What about the county?

ED BISHOP: $650,000 a year. Approximately.

WAYNE GRUENLOH: With those two retail developments and that road the school board is who will get a windfall as a result of all that development. It won't be the county. As far as building the road, it's the county. I want to find some way to have the board of education involved in that.

MIKE THOMPSON: Are we required to do this match on the athletic facility?

ED BISHOP: No. That retail center is turning in over $300,000 a month. They are looking to us to try to help them do something up there. Daphne and Spanish Fort are claiming we are up to here.

MIKE THOMPSON: Why do we need to negotiate anything with them? Why can't we just simply state that we are going to be using our funds to put that road in and the benefit will be the fact that you are going to get to $1.7 million dollars from the school board from the commercial enterprises and therefore that's going to be our contribution to help the school, not this matching program?

ED BISHOP: That sounds good. You still need over a half a million dollars. The road is going to cost over a million and a half.

MIKE THOMPSON: You think it's above and beyond?

ED BISHOP: Yeah. You have another $500,000 at least because our engineers projected at least a million and a half to include the bridge and the road for that westerly portion.

CAL MARKERT: $2 million.

WAYNE GRUENLOH: When they build a school some place are they allowed to put any money toward infrastructure as far as roads leading into and around the school? Are they limited to only doing stuff on their property?

FRANK BURT: They did participate in that one on 13 the last one they built.

ED BISHOP: They came to a commission meeting and helped us. They did a third.

LOCKE WILLIAMS: That was a turn lane in front of that Daphne school.

WAYNE GRUENLOH: I wonder if we couldn't get something in writing with them in regard to if we go along with this as far as that service road if they are going to be building -- I don't know how many schools over the next four or five years -- is there some commitment in terms of handling the roads as far as the roads in and around the schools that they would contribute money to the county and participate in those road improvements that are going to be surrounding the schools?

CAL MARKERT: There is a lot of existing schools that need road improvements now for turning lanes.

FRANK BURT: Perdido needs one.

CAL MARKERT: Loxley. They are all asking for caution lights and turning lanes from week to week.

WAYNE GRUENLOH: Am I barking up the wrong tree?

CAL MARKERT: A business or a subdivision, they are required -- if they are going to generate so much traffic to need a turning lane they are required to fund it. This would be a Commission decision. They are definitely adding to the traffic system and they need turning lanes and school caution lights.

ED BISHOP: The thing is they are getting the bulk of the money and we have got the bulk of the problem. We can't really deal with it. It's the golden rule; he who has the gold rules.

WAYNE GRUENLOH: I don't know from a legal standpoint what kind of restrictions they have as far as spending of the money and road and infrastructure in and around the school. If there's anything legally they would say we can only spend the money on property owned by the board of education or if they can go a quarter of a mile out, I don't know what is there with regard to that.

KYLE BAGGETT: Are they paying for turning lanes now?

CAL MARKERT: Most of the time we have asked them to reimburse half of it or we will get a commitment from them to do that. If it's something minor we do it.

KYLE BAGGETT: From what Locke says they can pay all of it in the future.

CAL MARKERT: Right.

KYLE BAGGETT: If we wanted to incorporate that in the appropriations we could do that. They could spend money on a turn lane based on what they have done in the past is my observation.

MIKE THOMPSON: On the ones that we have had some dollars come in to build the infrastructure once it's built we don't go back and ask for support or maintenance; we just absorb that at that point? For example, to go back and re-pave a turning lane, we won't go back to them on that in terms of maintenance?

FRANK BURT: The bottom line is it's our right-of-way, our road. If there is a liability there and the problem and we don't fix it we are the ones at fault.

WAYNE GRUENLOH: My point is, I guess I'm not crazy about giving them $500,000 for the athletic facility when I feel like whatever is taking place on that service road with the retail developments, they are going to the receive the bulk of the revenue and everyone is looking to us as far as coming up with the bulk of the cost. I think we have an opportunity to have some conversation with them and see if there is a way to have an agreement related to that service road. If there is some kind of ingenious way for them to be involved in that service road. At the same time we could come to a better understanding as far as roads in and around the schools. I think what you say as far as developers we have them paying costs associated with ingress and egress and turn lanes. Certainly when that school opens up there lands up being improvements that are needed. I think now is the time to have conversation with them to come up with a gentlemen's agreement as far as how we are going to handle it. We are continually being asked to assist in projects here and there. I see it as an opportunity. I would like to see us try to work it out. I might not get us anywhere. I think it's worth the conversation.

ED BISHOP: I understand where you are coming from in wanting to have that conversation. You know, where I'm standing at, I don't want to get in a situation where it looks like we are holding the school hostage for them to do something, which it may be the only way to get them to do it. At the same time you have the citizens and the tax payers of Spanish Fort and the city council and the other people involved in this thing that is looking for us to help in this project some way. You know, that's the feeling I have got from the people that call me, you know, as council members of Spanish Fort wanting to see that we are helping in that project. That's what that is. You know, no one wants more help out of the school board on this service road than I do. Frank and I started working on it two years ago and going to
them and talking to them about it. We didn't get anywhere. Back again with Scott Herrington and Joe and all of them a couple of weeks ago, back to them. I heard Joe personally talking to him on the phone about it and not getting anywhere to my knowledge. There has to be some way to deal with them on things like this. I hate to think we are holding the school hostage in the process.

MIKE THOMPSON: Do you think it's appropriate to link these two items or are they really two different issues and maybe they should be discussed separately? We have the issue with road costs, right? We have this issue with regard to these athletic facilities. Are they necessarily linked? Are we thinking about linking them to try to move in the right direction?

WAYNE GRUENLOH: You have under highway decision County Road 13, north side of 1-10, $650,000.

ED BISHOP: We had a half a million in there to go from the 13 interchange back to 181. They kept saying the State is going to do that now. You can forget about that. The only portion you are going to have to worry about is 13 back to the west to the 3ass Pro Shop, which includes the bridge. That's $1.5 million. This is property that belongs to Daphne, Spanish Fort and Baldwin County. The county is looked upon as the people that we had to transpose this $500,000 to this portion of the road. Up further discussions were, well, as far as we got, we had severa1 decisions and raised it to $650,000 on the premise that surely someone would come up and find the
rest of it, the $850,000. Hasn't happened to my knowledge. I think what we did is stretched ourselves up a little further than the $500,000 that we originally talked about over a year ago on the other portion of the road. As far as on the appropriation for the high school, how would that be effectuated? Would there be an  agreement between us and the board of education? How would that $500,000 be transferred? Is there an agreement drawn up between us and them? How does that work?

LOCKE WILLIAMS: We have not had a discussion. It could be by agreement or not between the Commission and the school board.

KYLE BAGGETT: Somewhere in the budget in the resolution or wherever that appropriation is we have the restriction about the twenty-five percent, our part would be the twenty-five percent max. I just crunched some numbers to link what we are talking about and we are getting $300,000 a month from the new mall. Just arbitrarily assuming twenty-five percent of that is new money, the school board part of that is $675,000 a year under those assumptions. Assuming seventy-five percent on that new money. That's a lot of money.

ED BISHOP: Just think what else they are going to get when Bass Pro Shop comes in.

KYLE BAGGETT: That's a third or a fourth.

ED BISHOP: Sam's and Lowe's is going across the road over there.

KYLE BAGGETT: It's impossible to know how much is new.

WAYNE GRUENLOH: The matter of twenty-five percent match has that been discussed with the school board?

FRANK BURT: That's our policy; that's the only way we will give them any is someone come up with the other seventy-five percent.

KYLE BAGGETT: We have had a long standing informal policy of a third on local school projects. We asked the board to put up a third, the school or PTA put up a third and the county put up a third. that's been a long standing at least informal policy. Pretty much all the projects I have been involved in personally we have taken that approach. They are used to the match concept.

MIKE THOMPSON: If I understand it correctly, other than just turn lanes or road issues that are directly adjacent to the school, the school board can't fund road projects?

WAYNE GRUENLOH: I don't know the answer to that question. That's where I started. I don't know if they can or can't.

ED BISHOP: Joe got an attorney general's opinion but his understanding is he believes they can according to this document he got from the attorney general's office. There is also those legal eagle question about whether or not -- It's not really clear in the paper that I saw that Joe had a copy of. He has hammered away on them. I heard him talking to them.

KYLE BAGGETT: I guess it's pretty restricted on the road issue.

LOCKE WILLIAMS: I would say when taking the practical approach -- and historically what has happened, you know, they can fund a middle turn lane for roads immediately adjacent to the school because that school is causing that need to occur. I see no problem legally from their perspective of funding those sort of things. Now, the long lasso approach where they are going to fund the service road along I-10, that is going to be a stretch legally on their part, I would think. I do kind of like your idea in that this $500,000 be applied if need be to that service road in lieu of the school board not being able to fund it.

CHARLES GRUBER: Didn't the school board give Spanish Fort a million dollars for the Sports Plex?

ED BISHOP: They are putting money into it.

CHARLES GRUBER: I think the school board gave each one of the high schools money. They have a million dollars towards their project now.

MIKE THOMPSON: The one thing that I keep thinking about with regard to this idea -- I think it's a good idea. The thing that I don't like about it is that it  addresses this particular issue. But it doesn't address the more general issue long-term of how do we handle road related issues around school. I think we need to come up with an idea that would be consistently moving forward. This may solve our issue for this particular point.

ED BISHOP: It will put out one fire but create another one from the standpoint they are still looking for that support on all the stuff they are trying to get done up there.

FRANK BURT: There is another issue in that the $650,000 is for the west end connector road. The county already maintains in our program the east end of that road and someone has just been saying that the State is going to take that over and build a building on it. I haven't seen that.

ED BISHOP: Randy Davis has said it repeatedly. It was quoted at that meeting with Scott lerrington with Joe Faust a couple of weeks ago that that was what was going to happen. I have not seen anything in writing.

CAL MARKERT: I will try to get something in writing from the State.

WAYNE GRUENLOH: I think they took the path if least resistance.

CAL MARKERT: I know if you look down here, there is one spot where the road is not very wide and there is a twenty or thirty foot drop off.

ED BISHOP: They have a house in the middle of it. It's not going to be an easy chore down there.

WAYNE GRUENLOH: Just personally I would like to see more conversation or discussion about that.

[The conversation drifted away from the Interchange and Service Road]