PROCEEDINGS HELD BEFORE THE BALDWIN COUNTY COMMISSION
(WORK SESSION)
Friday, June 8, 2007

County Commissioners

PRESENT :

Charles lfSkiplGlr uber
Wayne Gruenloh
David Bishop
Frank Burt

ALSO PRESENT:

Scott Barnett, Esquire
Michael Thompson, County Administrator
Virginia Bridges, Mobile Press Register
David A. Z. Brewer, Assistant to County
Administrator for Research & Special Projects

MR. PENNINGTON (Wesley Pennington with the Highway Department.) : Commissioner, we have another item that we brought with us.

CHAIRMAN GRUENLOH: Okay.

MR. PENNINGTON: This is regarding the service roads along 1-10 that boarder Timber Creek.

CHAIRMAN GRUENLOH: Okay.

MR. PENNINGTON: It's to approve to base and pave four thousand feet from the edge of the pavement to the end of maintenance for an estimated cost of sixteen thousand dollars in labor, a hundred and eighty-four thousand, one hundred and fifty-two dollars for materials, for a total estimate of two hundred thousand, one hundred and a hundred dollars that the Area 100 Barn will do the work. It's also to approve Chief Counsel, Scott Barnett, and the Highway Department to work with Timber Creek Land Company to reach a written agreement accepting their contribution of four-point-three million dollars from Timber Creek and agreeing to the scope of plans 2nd construction required for the 1-10 service road sxtension and the access ramp between State Route 181 and the proposed Mobile Infirmary.

CHAIRMAN GRUENLOH: Okay. Commissioners,questions?

COMMISSIONER BISHOP: Mr. Chairman, I think it's just obvious to recognize the attachment. There was a letter from Mr. Allen Cox with the Timber Creek Land Company that he agrees to contribute a total of four-point-three million for a proposed service road, which would carry the road beyond the 13 interchange and over to the Mobile Infirmary site, with a written agreement that no one be allowed to connect to that road for a period of ten years if this were to take place. But the benefit of this project is the County can proceed with their plans of moving traffic. And, also, you can get the interchange there with AL DOT, their expenditures of that interchange of bringing the traffic into 1-10 and along into that service road and carry them back to the east. The interchange is critical. So I think our engineer is trying to take advantage of what AL DOT is willing to do and also with what Timber Creek is willing to do.

MR. THOMPSON: Mr. Chairman, have we gotten any response from, I guess, the City of Spanish Fort, who was planning to go back and speak to the developers of Bass Pro? Have we gotten any other comments back since our last meeting?

CHAIRMAN GRUENLOH: We have some representatives from Spanish Fort here, if y'all want to come to the table. Go ahead and state your name and position.

MR. McMILLAN: I'm Mike McMillan, Spanish Fort City Counsel.

MR. CONNER: I'm David Conner, City Attorney. After our last meeting, Mr. Chairman, we entered into discussions with Cypress regarding their contribution. I do believe there is a possibility to make that go forward, although the meeting with their group in Dallas has been postponed for several days for reasons I don't understand or know. And I have left conversations -- left messages with Mr. Harrington since Monday. That meeting was originally going to be held Monday, and then it was going to be held Wednesday. And I haven't heard the response from that meeting. So other than to tell you we have met with them on behalf of the City the try to encourage them to come to the table and get with the parties, the response was they were meeting with their partners in Dallas to discuss their contribution. And I am awaiting a response to report back to you. And I don't have that answer.

CHAIRMAN GRUENLOH: Okay.

MR. CONNER: That's about the best I can do for you.

CHAIRMAN GRUENLOH: Okay.

MR. CONNER: I'm hopeful that we're going to hear an answer one way or the other today. The meeting occurred yesterday.

CHAIRMAN GRUENLOH: All right. Just to make sure that I understand exactly what we're talking about as far as a recommendation, Item 1, is that pertaining to our section of the road on the east; is that what we're talking about?

MR. McMILLAN: Yes, sir.

CHAIRMAN GRUENLOH: Taking it from wherever the pavement stops over there and bringing it up to --

MR. McMILLAN: The end of Woodrow Lane.

CHAIRMAN GRUENLOH: -- the end of Woodrow Lane.

MR. THOMPSON: Comes to about here; right?

CHAIRMAN GRUENLOH: Up to about there; correct?

MR. McMILLAN: Right.

CHAIRMAN GRUENLOH: Okay. All right. So Number 1 is a given. I understand that. All right. Then Number 2, explain that a little more fully to me. And someone explain to me what this agreement would be and the contingency that Commissioner Bishop mentioned as far as the ten-year period.

MR. McMILLAN: Well, Timber Creek, from the end of Woodrow Lane to roughly where the proposed Mobile Infirmary project is going - -

MR. THOMPSON: From here over to here.

MR. McMILLAN: -- Timber Creek is willing to donate the right-of-way and give us four-point-three million dollars to cover that section. And they have --

COMMISSIONER BISHOP: It's about thirteen or fifteen acres of land, isn't it?

MR. McMILLAN: I'm not really sure.

MR. THOMPSON: I believe it's -- I believe it's eleven acres.

COMMISSIONER BISHOP: Okay.

MR. McMILLAN: And they want a stipulation that they have to approve any extension or access to this for ten years.

COMMISSIONER BURT: Mr. Chairman.

CHAIRMAN GRUENLOH: COMMISSIONER BURT.

COMMISSIONER BURT: I've been in several of these meetings. I believe Ed was there, and I was, and several of the legislators and members of the Highway Department's engineers. And the whole effort had been from the start to get all involved that could be. Spanish Fort has about put as much as they had to put on the plate to complete this project to where it actually tied into the -- the -- whatever we call this development there.

MR. CONNER: Spanish Fort Town Center.

COMMISSIONER BURT: Town Center, And they needed that connection off of this interchange because of some people who were going to build a business there. And I think that was much needed. We came up with costs, went to Montgomery a couple times and got estimated costs. And costs kept going up the more we looked at it. And then, finally, I believe a man from Timber Creek and his partners gave a specific amount that they thought was fair. And we said all the money we had was six hundred and fifty thousand dollars. That's all the County has approved, and that's all we could put on the table. We might could do some in-kind work, if the Commission approved
it, but we couldn't commit to that. And each time the people with the development were going to come back and give us a number as to what they could put on the able. The gentleman sitting right behind you is one I think that was going to bring something back. And they just never have done that. And it's gone on through several meetings. And I think the Timber Creek folks, they said, we're donating the property, and you're either going to get on it now so we can go on and complete this - - Mobile Infirmary was talking about a hundred-acre parcel up there to build a new hospital. And all of it just needed to come together. And the State was ready for it to go. We had agreed to -- The Commission had agreed to handle everything on the north side of that. And we just never could get them to come to the table. And each time they promised they would have us an answer at the next meeting. And now you're telling me this morning they're not going to have that answer, don't have it today. And I assure you, the folks at Timber Creek said, you know, we're going to have a drop-dead date to do it, And if you don't do it this way, then our offer to
donate the property is off the table. The folks at AL DOT said, we will not buy one foot of property up there. We'll just cut this thing off, and there won't be an interchange there. That would have been a foolish thing to do, as far as we were concerned, because the need for the hospital is great and needed to be there. And each time, Cypress Equities, or whoever it is, has had to put it off one more time how much they'll put on the table. Daphne's been there, said what they could do. Spanish Fort said what they could do. This is much more valuable, I think, than two hundred thousand dollars. If the Commission agrees to build that, the value of doing that is considerable.

MR. THOMPSON: One-point-five million.

COMMISSIONER BURT: It's considerable. So we just need to move ahead with it, like you got here. I would hope - - I don't want the Chief Counsel and Highway Department to reach the written agreement. I would like to read the written agreement and have the commission approve that, Mr. Chairman.

CHAIRMAN GRUENLOH: I agree.

COMMISSIONER BURT: I mean, because this thing has changed so many times over how many months?

COMMISSIONER BISHOP: Oh, it's been so many.

COMMISSIONER BURT: Yeah, I mean, it's just on and on and on. And they're really doing work down there now. This just needs to be brought to the table. He said if -- The folks at Timber Creek said, if you don't make your decision, put your money on the table, sign on the dotted line for your commitment, it's off the table. And let them control it for ten years. It seems reasonable to me.

COMMISSIONER BISHOP: Commissioner Burt, you know, in addition to that, you know, we sat down with Mobile Infirmary. And they said, we've got this arrangement -- And I didn't see the documents, but, I mean, I believe what they say -- to the end of June to fish or cut bait. I mean, you know what I mean? I mean, we could pull our thing back and then the whole thing is dead. You know what I mean? So if Mr. Cox is giving us sort of an ultimatum, drew his line in the sand where he's at, I think he's working off what he's got with the Mobile Infirmary.

COMMISSIONER BURT: And maybe perhaps from Daphne too.

COMMISSIONER BISHOP: Yeah. So it's a complicated maze of all these players, trying to get them to the table, as y'all know. You've been in some of the meetings.
 
CHAIRMAN GRUENLOH: Mr. Turner.

MR. TURNER: Yeah. I just want to make sure that the record is clear. Commissioner Burt, the only thing that I would say different about your comment about Bass Pro or Cypress Equities Group responding is that the first section is one-point-five million dollars. And that's to take it from 181 to just east of the 13. The second station takes it from there to west of the 13 interchange. And that's four-point-three million dollars. The next station takes it from the end of that site to the Bass Pro property line, not all the way to 90, but to the Bass Pro or Cypress Equities property line. And that's the two-point-four-million-dollar number. All right. To carry the road from 90 to Cypress Equities property line, as I stated earlier, that first section, the one-and-a-half that the County is paying, is from 181 to that first station. Cypress is paying that whole portion by itself, which is a five-million-dollar section across its own property line, on its own property.

MR. THOMPSON: They say they're going to deed that property to the --

MR. McMILLAN: CID. CID owns that road.

MR. CONNER: Part of the reason it's so expensive is they're having to build a bridge across the ravine. So that five million dollars for the first leg of that road is being paid one hundred percent by Cypress.

COMMISSIONER BURT: But you're talking about going from --

MR. CONNER: 90 to their east property line, that whole section of that road that will be tied in they're paying the entire cost by themselves. The next station, carrying it from their property line, their east property line, to the west line of Section 2 is two-point-four million dollars. They have pledged one-point-thee million dollars towards that two-point-four. The problem comes in is that road, that station, is not in the City of Spanish Fort; it's actually in the County, except for a small portion of it. It's not owned by Cypress. It's owned by Alabama Educational Television Commission. It's not owned by Timber Creek. There's just been some business decisions that have been made, that if Cypress participates, instead of paying two-point-four, which would be the section to get it to their site, they've got to pay the five million, the two-point-four, and then a little bit more for the use of the right-of-way to come across, which is basically about a four-million-dollar number. So I don't -- Although I'm not here defending Cypress -- That's their job -- I just want to make sure that the record is out there that they have put some money towards the project. It's just not enough to satisfy everybody at the table.

COMMISSIONER BURT: Well, what -- I have not seen nor has anybody put anything up in a meeting I've been at. Every one I've been to, I haven't heard you or the folks you work for say they would put up one dime.

MR. McMILLAN: The one-point-three, Commissioner, has been placed on the table.

COMMISSIONER BURT: Well, I --

MR. McMILLAN: If you've missed that --

COMMISSIONER BISHOP: That did come after he was out.

MR. TURNER: Yes, sir. This has been in subsequent meetings.

COMMISSIONER BURT: Well, you're not talking about any that the State singled out?

MR. TURNER: No, sir. This is cash money. They offered one-point-three toward that two-point-four million dollars.

COMMISSIONER BISHOP: It's just one-point-one short.

MR. TURNER: One-point-three-five, yeah, one-point-one short; right. So I'11 just state that just so everybody knows that they have come forward with some money. It's just not enough to make everybody satisfied.

COMMISSIONER BURT: Okay. Well, I didn't know they'd come with any, because some of them meetings went, they never did.

MR. CONNER: So far, from 90 to the west line of that station, Cypress is paying six million dollars.

COMMISSIONER BURT: A lot is on their property if they want a --

MR. TURNER: So is the road on Timber Creek.

COMMISSIONER BURT: But a lot of it's on their property, wasn't it?

MR. CONNER: It is.

COMMISSIONER BURT: I would expect --

MR. CONNER: It's a road on Timber Creek's --

COMMISSIONER BURT: But it doesn't benefit Timber Creek.

MR. CONNER: I understand. I understand. I'm not --

COMMISSIONER BURT: That will help the hospital, which we need.

MR. CONNER: Absolutely, absolutely.

COMMISSIONER BURT: And it certainly - - It just makes sense that we ought to be able to do this.

MR. THOMPSON: The sad thing is, though, we've had so many meetings, and we're having to hear a position from this organization through a third party who doesn't even represent that party.

MR. TURNER: 1'11 arrange for that just --

COMMISSIONER BURT: I understand.

MR. TURNER: I don't think their contribution is sufficient at this point either, and I've told them as much. But I do want you to know what's been placed on the table.

COMMISSIONER BURT: Okay. Well, I --

CHAIRMAN GRUENLOH: All right. Question: When I see the letter from Timber Creek, the first paragraph talks about contributing a maximum four-point-three million. That doesn't mention contributing a right-of-way. But in the second paragraph of this letter, it ends with land being donated and cash contributions. So is this agreement going to deal with then contributing a right-of-way and four-point-three in cash?

COMMISSIONER BISHOP: Yes, sir.

CHAIRMAN GRUENLOH: So that's being talked about ?

COMMISSIONER BISHOP: Yes, sir.

CHAIRMAN GRUENLOH: So that's what the agreement would say?

COMMISSIONER BISHOP: Right.

CHAIRMAN GRUENLOH: All right. What concerns me is when they take about that the land company would have to approve any extension or access to the service road for a period of ten years. If that's right-of-way of the County, and if Spanish Fort was to annex everything to the west of it, I don't see how we could keep someone from accessing that public road if they were to build a road up and connect to it. I don't see how we can keep someone from accessing a road. I don't understand that.

MR. McMILLAN: Yeah, we're going to have to rely on Legal for that.

MR. THOMPSON: Mr. Chairman, if the effort is to try to provide them with what they want, I would assume that that last western leg going across Timber Creek property, whatever it is, a hundred feet, five hundred feet, whatever, that probably would not be donated. They'd be willing to donate ten years from now. But wherever that road ends to get you to the Infirmary is what they would deed over. I'm assuming that's the only way we could do it legally; okay? But their point is that they believe four-point-three million is much more than their fair share. Now, if they're going to pay much more than their fair share, they don't want the road going through there for other private entities.

COMMISSIONER BISHOP: Well, and their --

MR. THOMPSON: That's their argument.

COMMISSIONER BISHOP: Their belief is, is, you know, they've drawn a line in the sand for a reason. If it requires lawsuits or whatever to make it happen, it'd be tied up in court so long that it would probably be ten years.

COMMISSIONER BURT: Right.

MR. THOMPSON: Now, if the right-of-way area to go west to -- west across Timber Creek, let's just say -- You know, I don't know how far it is. Say it's a mile, you know. They could deed eight-tenths of that mile and the two-tenths of it not deed over, you know, and that basically would end the road until they decided to deed the other two-tenths.

CHAIRMAN GRUENLOH: Well, I guess I wouldn't want to see us get in the position to where, if you will, they have a hammer, if you will, to see this thing not be completed if eventually Cypress Equities comes to the realization that it's in their benefit, you know, you know. I guess I'm thinking of the phrase, you know, in a leasing term as far as subleasing, - whatever that legal jargon is -- "will not be withheld" or something.

COMMISSIONER BURT: But I believe, Mr. Chairman, like Mr. Thompson said, that road wouldn't extend all the way to Cypress Equities property. It would stop somewhere on Timber Creek property --

CHAIRMAN GRUENLOH: Right.

COMMISSIONER BURT: -- and, therefore, they wouldn't give them any more right-of-way to get over to that property without them going back and paying their
fair share. That's what --

MR. THOMPSON: And I'm not saying this is an unfair share or a fair share, What I am saying is, I've been to three meetings, and nobody from the western end was there stating what their position was.

CHAIRMAN GRUENLOH: So is the plan then for - - Mr. Barnett -- for y'all to have an agreement prepared for the Commission to review and look at and have some input in prior to next Thursday's meeting?

MR. BARNETT: Oh, yes, sir. Along that line, Wesley penned in on his Recommendation Number 2 that it will be an additional document that the Highway Department and Legal would deal with and, of course, the final document approved by the County Commission. That seems to be what -- where we're heading.

CHAIRMAN GRUENLOH: So we'll try to be on track to have that final document by next Thursday? Is that what we're trying to get to, or no?

MR. BARNETT: That would be next to impossible, because --

CHAIRMAN GRUENLOH: Okay.

MR. BARNETT: -- the details would need to be worked out with -- and the phraseology, if you will, would have to be worked out with those representing Timber Creek. And those kind of details haven't even begun to be discussed.

CHAIRMAN GRUENLOH: All right. So Number 2 will be changed to where we're approving y'all to prepare an initial document for review by the Commission for future --

MR. BARNETT: Loosely using the word "negotiatingH with Timber Creek. We're basically ironing out some details and bringing the County Commission back a document to formally approve.

CHAIRMAN GRUENLOH: Okay.

COMMISSIONER BURT: I think --

CHAIRMAN GRUENLOH: Commissioners, we all agree --

COMMISSIONER BURT: -- two members of the Commission ought to be there at whatever meetings you hold.

CHAIRMAN GRUENLOH: I would agree with that. I agree with that.  Commissioners, we're okay with that? Are we on track?

COMMISSIONER BURT: Yes, sir.

CHAIRMAN GRUENLOH: We're moving ahead, somewhat slow, but we're still moving.

MR. McMILLAN: Yes, sir.

CHAIRMAN GRUENLOH: Okay. Very good. Thank you, Wesley.